Why Ignoring Bad Behavior Doesn’t Work
For today’s topic, we’re going to delve a little deeper into an oft-repeated myth about positive training. Namely, the idea that in order to train a well-mannered companion, you need to do two things:
Reward what you like, and ignore what you don’t.
Seems easy, right?
Chances are, if you’re a dog owner, you’ve heard some version of this mantra somewhere along the way – from a well-meaning friend or neighbor, perhaps, or in an online training group. And really, it sounds pretty reasonable at first blush. So why am I writing a blog post about it today?
This particular myth gets under my skin for a couple of reasons.
First, it’s a gross mis-characterization of how reward-based training works. It plays into the idea that because positive trainers don’t use punishment, ignoring bad behavior is the only recourse we have. So, the thinking goes… are you supposed to just ignore your dog when he’s snatching a pot roast from your kitchen counter, or running amok at the park?
Most owners are skeptical of this plan, for good reason. Sometimes, people opt for correction-based techniques instead because they don’t think positive training can be effective for these types of real-life problems.
This makes me sad.
Second, and perhaps more importantly, it just isn’t very helpful advice.
Your friendly golden retriever jumps on guests? Just ignore her until she stops, then praise and pet. New puppy barking all night in her crate? Don’t pay any attention to her, and only let her out when she’s quiet.
Could we potentially “fix” issues like these by ignoring them? Maybe… under certain circumstances, which we’ll discuss in more detail below. But the process won’t be much fun, and it’s likely to take a lot longer than you might have hoped.
Fortunately, we have better options at our disposal.
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Before we dig into the specific reasons I don’t recommend simply ignoring things you don’t like, let’s talk about the theory behind this advice. Decades of psychology studies have yielded some inarguable truths about the forces that drive behavior, and how animals learn. One of these truths is this:
Behaviors that are reinforced (rewarded, in plain English) will get stronger, while behaviors that are consistently NOT reinforced will tend to die out over time.
Hence – reward the good stuff, and ignore the bad.
So far, so good.
BUT. Here’s the problem:
This advice relies on a critical assumption – that YOU are the only possible source of reinforcement for whatever behavior your dog might engage in.
Sometimes, this might be true. If I’m working with my dog in a controlled training environment to teach him a new skill, I might very well choose to simply ignore an incorrect response and have him try again. In this situation, ignoring the undesired behavior can be very effective because my dog wants what I have (usually treats, or a toy) and is being actively rewarded every time for making the right choice.
So, for example: let’s say we’re working on coming neatly into “front” position for the obedience ring, in a quiet training building without any significant environmental distractions. A straight sit in front earns a click and treat, while a crooked sit means I simply step out of position and reset for another try.
Is this a reasonable training plan? Sure! Under these conditions, I would expect the number of straight sits to increase, and the crooked sits should get less frequent over time.
Now, let’s look at a different scenario.
What if my dog is jumping on the counter to look for leftovers? Why can’t I simply ignore this, and expect the problem to go away?
Here’s the difference:
In the real world, many problem behaviors are self-rewarding.
It may be true that I, personally, am not reinforcing my dog for jumping on the counter. I am not praising him and giving a treat, or throwing his toy, or scratching his ears approvingly. But that doesn’t mean the behavior isn’t being reinforced! On the contrary – every time he scores a tasty morsel from the countertop, it strengthens the behavior of jumping up and makes it more likely to continue.
In other words, the environment itself is reinforcing my dog for jumping. My involvement (or lack thereof) isn’t relevant.
This is why simply ignoring common problems like barking at the mailman, jumping on guests, pulling on the leash, etc. isn’t an effective strategy. These are all behaviors that your dog finds rewarding, without any input from you. So they’re likely to continue happening as long as nothing changes.
Note that this is NOT because your dog is naughty, or stubborn, or deliberately trying to make you angry – it’s just science! So don’t take it personally. We’ll talk about some solutions below.
But first…
What about situations where we DO control the reinforcement? Let’s say your dog begs for food at the table, or whines for attention when you’re watching TV, or cries all night in his crate.
In all of these cases, the dog wants something that we can control. We can choose to give him a bite of our dinner, or get off the couch and throw his toy, or let him out of the crate to sleep in our bed – or not. So it stands to reason that ignoring this behavior (making sure it isn’t reinforced) would be a good way of making it stop.
Right?
Well… yes and no.
The short answer is, I still don’t really care for this strategy as a stand-alone option. Here’s why:
Learning theory tells us that behavior that is reinforced will be repeated, and behavior that isn’t reinforced will tend to die out. But we also have our dog’s previous learning history to contend with – and if a particular behavior has been successful in the past, he won’t give up on it easily.
So what happens if you decide to start ignoring a behavior that you’ve always rewarded before?
In most cases, what happens is that your dog gets frustrated.
Let’s use begging at the table as an example. If you decide to ignore the soulful eyes and head resting on your knee, will your dog shrug his shoulders (metaphorically speaking) and wander off to do something else? Probably not. After all, he’s been begging for food at dinnertime for the past six months, and it’s always worked before.
So if no food is forthcoming, he’ll escalate his tactics. He may whine, or paw at you, or shove his way further into your lap. If you STILL don’t oblige him with a bite or two, you may get a whole host of obnoxious behaviors including barking, nosing your plate, and jumping up at the table.
In other words, instead of giving up, the dog doubles down and tries even harder. This is called an “extinction burst” in behavior science parlance – it’s an entirely predictable result of ignoring a behavior that was previously reinforced, and it’s not fun for anyone involved.
In this example, most humans will eventually give in and slip the dog a piece of meatloaf somewhere along the way, because he’s becoming increasingly annoying and they just want to eat their dinner in peace. Which of course, just rewards the dog for his persistence – and ensures that he’ll try twice as hard next time rather than give up.
Now. Could ignoring these behaviors eventually work, in theory?
Yes – but only if you’re absolutely determined not to give in, even once, no matter what your pup might do. This can lead to an unpleasant battle of wills with lots of frustration on both sides, which definitely isn’t what most of us are looking for in our relationship with our dogs.
It’s also going to take a long time (especially if the behavior in question has a really long, solid reward history!), and you’ll likely never completely get rid of it. Most dogs will still try their old “go-to” strategies from time to time, even if they haven’t been rewarded in a long while.
So what should we do instead?
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The good news is, positive trainers DO have other strategies available to us that are much quicker, easier, and more user-friendly than simply ignoring unwanted behavior.
First, rest assured – you aren’t expected to just sit on your hands and do nothing. Dogs misbehaving from time to time is a fact of life, and we all need a way to step in and intervene. So in the moment, if your dog is acting up, take action! It’s absolutely fine to interrupt or distract him, and redirect his energy in a more acceptable direction.
Some examples of easy “interrupt and redirect” strategies for a few common problems:
- Jumping on guests – scatter a handful of tasty treats on the floor, then have your visitor go and sit down while the dog is busy searching them out.
- Counter surfing – call him away from the counter and reward, then block him out of the kitchen.
- Crying in the crate – take him out for a potty break, then put him back to bed with a frozen peanut butter Kong or other treat to chew on.
- Chewing on the coffee table – give him a bully stick or puzzle toy instead.
The important thing to realize is that, in most cases, what you’re doing here isn’t really *training* – it’s managing a problem as it occurs. Which is fine, and necessary sometimes! But if you want to change your dog’s behavior going forward, you’re going to need to be proactive.
What does that mean, exactly?
This is what positive training is all about. 😊
First, it means managing the environment to prevent problems from occurring in the first place. If we think our dog might run wild at the park and harass other dogs or people, we can choose to keep him on-leash. We can keep tasty leftovers off the counter so that they aren’t available for snatching, or use a baby gate to confine our pup to a different room at mealtimes so that begging isn’t an option. We can close the blinds before the mailman comes, to preempt the inevitable frenzy of barking.
(I wrote a post a while back that goes into more detail about management and why it’s important, which can be found here if you’re interested.)
Secondly, we can train the dog to do something else, and reward for that instead.
We can teach him to sit instead of jumping on visitors, and reward generously for this with treats at a distance – then gradually work up to close-quarters greetings once he has more self-control. We can train him to lay on a mat away from the table at mealtimes, and reward him for choosing to go there rather than drooling over our plate.
This way, instead of allowing the dog to get increasingly frustrated and hoping that he stumbles on an acceptable solution, we’re taking control – showing him what we want, and making it worth his while to do this new thing instead.
We all appreciate clear direction and good communication, right? Dogs are no different.
This approach works for just about any problem behavior you can possibly imagine. So if your pup is doing something you don’t like, ask yourself: what do I *want* him to do in this situation?
Then train that. Don’t ignore him and hope for the best.
Believe me – in the long run, you’ll both be happier.
52 thoughts on “Why Ignoring Bad Behavior Doesn’t Work”
“Jumping on guests – scatter a handful of tasty treats on the floor, then have your visitor go and sit down while the dog is busy searching them out.
Counter surfing – call him away from the counter and reward, then block him out of the kitchen.
Crying in the crate – take him out for a potty break, then put him back to bed with a frozen peanut butter Kong or other treat to chew on.
Chewing on the coffee table – give him a bully stick or puzzle toy instead.”
No. This doesn’t work either. These are rewarding the dog with treats and attention when he/she does something wrong. Jump on the guests gets me food on the ground. Whining in my crate gets me out for a minute and then I get a tasty treat. The dog doesn’t learn anything but what to do to get attention and treats.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with telling a dog what they are doing is not right and that they need to keep working to get the right thing. Now, obviously, that is after you have taught them what the right thing is. If the dog doesn’t know that jumping on people is wrong, then that is where to start. A dog must be taught was is acceptable and unacceptable behavior, and there is nothing wrong with that at all.
Why are people so hesitant about telling a child or a dog what they are doing is wrong? My parents never had a problem with that. I learned quickly. I tell my dogs that same thing all the time, and that is my job as a responsible pet parent to do that. They live in a human society and they must be taught how to act and what is expected of them. Nothing wrong with that at all. Or you can be like my neighbors dog who never leave their tiny yard because the person never teaches them anything and the only time they get out of the yard is when they escape and run loose in the streets until someone catches them and throws them back into the yard.
Thank you for bring this out into the real world. Ignoring bad behavior does not work, and so much of bad behavior is self reinforced. I learned that quickly with a dog that has a huge barking and whining problem. The noise and behavior is reinforcing enough to him that nothing I do stops it. I learned that a long time ago. Even bark collars don’t work. E collars don’t work. Ignoring it doesn’t work. Telling him he is wrong doesn’t work because the action on his own overrides everything and the behavior, no matter the strength of the correction, can is more rewarding than anything. I have learned to accept this behavior. It is who he is and we work around and accept it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! This is a great point for discussion, so thanks for bringing it up.
To address the objection you raised, the suggestions you took issue with above are all specifically presented as benign ways of interrupting an unwanted behavior in the moment, NOT as a training plan in and of themselves. We’re talking about crisis management, not how to get long-term behavior changes for the future. These are two very different things!
Very little good training actually happens “in the moment”, which comes as a surprise to many pet owners 🙂 It’s all about setting the dog up for success, and taking the time to teach what you want *before* the problem happens. Once he’s already in the act of jumping on guests, or keeping everyone in the house awake by crying in the crate, etc, this isn’t really a great training opportunity – the best you can do is interrupt the behavior, and make a better plan for next time.
All of these behaviors are self-reinforcing to some degree, which means that once the dog is already doing them, it’s important that they not be allowed to continue. So STOPPING the behavior is priority number one. We can do this in one of two ways: we can redirect him to something else, and reward for doing that instead (which is what I recommend), or we can interrupt by using some type of punishment (which I’m assuming is what you would advocate, since you don’t agree with my approach?)
Punishment as a training tool carries a significant risk of behavioral “side effects”, which is why I don’t recommend it as a first line approach for dealing with problem behaviors. It also doesn’t tell the dog what *is* acceptable.
Also, for what it’s worth… Interestingly, although you might think that these behaviors would increase as a result of the dog being redirected with treats or other fun things, this isn’t generally what happens. In fact, in my experience, the main effect of using these techniques is that the dog simply becomes easier to redirect in the future. A win for everyone 🙂
And of course, I would never recommend doing this as your only form of training! Most of the really useful learning is happening at other times, when you’re actually working on the skills your dog needs to not jump, stay quiet in his crate, etc. rather than when you’re managing things in crisis mode.
I hope that helps to clarify things a bit!
Remember what “punishment” actually means in dog training. You are using punishment as something using brute force like hitting or kicking. In actually, and I can’t believe I am telling this to a person who makes their living as a dog trainer, punishment is just something that is done to decrease the behavior, whether that is negative or positive. And remember positive and negative only means adding something or taking away something. Reinforcement is doing something to increase the likelihood the behavior repeats. Punishment means doing something to decrease the likelihood the behavior repeats. Positive is adding something to increase the likelihood the behavior repeats. Negative means taking away something to decrease the likelihood the behavior repeats. Remember?
That is where all the confusion lies with dog training. Positive training has been altered to mean something that isn’t the true meaning per real science based training.
I think the two terms that also often get tossed around and confused are “coercion” and “free choice.” It is often used by “positive dog trainers” that dogs must not be coerced or forced into a behavior, but must have free choice. I do believe there is some validity to it to a degree, after the dog has been taught clearly what the difference is, and not before. That could take months, depending on the skill of the handler, and most dog people are super poor handlers since they are also tackling a long list of other priorities like kids and cars and jobs and spouses. Most people don’t want to train their dogs. They want them coming to them already perfect, just like in the Disney movies.
I write primarily for an audience of regular dog owners, not trainers or behavior professionals – so I strive to use the type of language that most pet owners use and understand. I’m aware of the quadrants and how they’re defined. There’s no need to be sarcastic or condescending.
I’m not sure where you took issue with my use of punishment as a term, in my response to you? You’re right that punishment does not necessarily mean harsh techniques like hitting, kicking, etc. I don’t believe I said that it did? I did say that the use of punishment as a training tool can have fallout, which is quite true – regardless of whether it’s mild or severe.
When I talk about “punishment” on the blog, I do primarily mean P+, because that’s what the average dog owner understands punishment to be, in everyday conversation. But even P- can have side effects that we may not want.
And yes, “positive” means something different to the general public than it does from a learning theory standpoint. I write for the general public, so when I say “positive,” I mean reward-based. If I were writing or speaking to a group of professional trainers, I would use different terminology for that audience.
” But even P- can have side effects that we may not want.”
Having worked in shelters and adopted dogs and seen the thousands of posts by rescues who post dogs that state that the dogs were surrendered because the person didn’t have the time needed to care for the dog, or that the dog wasn’t responding to training or, essentially blaming the dog for not responding to training. The side effect is that the dog looses his/her home and now has a label as being difficult. The dog trainer has already deposited the checks, the person goes to a breeder and gets another dog and the cycle continues over and over. That is the only side effect I see, and the only one that matters. What I see so much is just band-aids that people apply to dogs that trainers suggest because no one wants to do the real work, because it is not easy. Temporary fixes like medication or throwing treats when a dog jumps on someone. Just band aid fixes because the real solutions are too much work. Down the road, the dog is re-homed and the cycle continues, or worse, thrown into a backyard, to bark and dig or medicated so severely that the dog doesn’t know day from night.
You finally got to some very valid arguments against the “ignore the bad behavior” thing. But I was frustrated by your approach. Perhaps it’s because I have some experience in the world of training, but I’ve always heard the concept as “Reward what you want, DON’T REWARD what you don’t want.” “Ignoring” and “not rewarding” are two very different things. My experience has been to substitute a desired behavior that can be rewarded for an undesirable one…..for example, reward the dog for keeping all 4 paws on the floor instead of jumping on guests. This is similar to your example of throwing treats aside while guests get seated, but rewarding for a desired behavior is much more proactive and direct. And it’s true that many people confuse “management” for “training.” I think I basically agree with your position, but I’m not comfortable with the way you explained it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! I believe we’re saying the same thing, here – I did devote some discussion at the end of the post to the solution of training and rewarding for an alternate behavior, which seems to also be what you’re suggesting?
As noted in my response to Jackie above, this is a separate thing from interrupting a problem behavior once it’s already happening. Agreed that training the dog to do something different in the first place is definitely preferred, but that isn’t much help when the dog is currently leaping all over your guests 🙂
And yes, training and management are two different things – both important, but NOT the same. I agree that this is a common point of confusion for many pet owners.
“First, it means managing the environment to prevent problems from occurring in the first place. If we think our dog might run wild at the park and harass other dogs or people, we can choose to keep him on-leash. We can keep tasty leftovers off the counter so that they aren’t available for snatching, or use a baby gate to confine our pup to a different room at mealtimes so that begging isn’t an option. We can close the blinds before the mailman comes, to preempt the inevitable frenzy of barking.”
The problem here is that these don’t teach the dog what they are doing is wrong. Instead of being confined on a leash or out of a dog park, the dog can be taught that harassing other dogs and people are wrong. Nothing wrong with that. Instead of confining them outside of the kitchen, they can learn that grabbing food is wrong. I have had to face that more recently when I adopted a 26 inch tall sighthound from Saudi Arabia. Everything in the world is within the reach of this dog, so instead of avoiding leaving food out, he is being taught in small time frames and in a controlled situation that grabbing food off of tables is wrong. In between that he is confined or the food is put away until he gets the idea and can be trusted more and more. But, he IS being taught that grabbing food is wrong. Over time, and he has been learning this, he can be left alone and he proves he is responsible and how to act. Had to do the same thing with digging in the yard and chewing on items. He is taught what he is doing is wrong, so gradually he can have more freedom and earn that freedom by doing the right thing and learning what is not acceptable. When he does it right and leaves this things alone, he is rewarded and told he is doing great and what he is doing is great.
How are you teaching him that grabbing food off the table is wrong?
Several different ways depending on his level of knowledge. Basically my dogs are taught that they are only allowed to eat food given by me. They can’t grab food that falls on the ground or anything on the street. They don’t steal from another dog at home. Leave it is taught early and reinforced everywhere. If I see him sniffing or putting his big nose near food on the table I can tell him wrong and leave it. Gradually he is praised when there is food or snacks in his reach, and he leaves.
These are management strategies – they’re not intended to teach the dog anything in particular, just to prevent problems from occurring 🙂 This can be a short-term measure while more appropriate behaviors are being taught, or a long-term solution for things that the owner doesn’t have time to train, or that aren’t a high priority for a particular dog or client.
Can you spend some time training the skills your dog needs to be successful off-leash at the park, or loose in the kitchen at mealtime? Sure! I’d definitely encourage this. But that’s a separate discussion – what we’re talking about here, is how to prevent problems in the meantime.
“But that’s a separate discussion – what we’re talking about here, is how to prevent problems in the meantime.”
Why is training the dog a separate discussion from preventing problems? That is the same, and I think that is where so many problems occur because people want quick fixes and don’t want to do the actual training involved, so they tell the trainer, “Just tell me how I can walk my dog on a leash? I don’t care about actually fixing anything. I just want to be able to walk my dog on a leash in my neighborhood.” Right? So the person completely limits the dog’s ability to only being able to walk on a leash down the street without causing problems. They avoid all the other things that dog’s need because it isn’t in the realm of what they want from the dog. Rather than thinking about the dog’s needs, they are only thinking about their own ego and how they appear in their neighborhood walking this German Shepherd on a leash down the street that they just paid $2000 for. Then they wonder why a year down the road the dog is going nuts and is out of control. “See. I told you that we shouldn’t have gotten a German Shepherd. They are way too much. Your cousin was right.” And off the dog goes to another home or a shelter or a rescue, frustrated and out of control.
I have used positive training with a number of rescued dogs but am stumped by my most recent, a lovely 7yo male Pekingese. I have no history on this dog other than that the rescuer said he would bite if startled, she only had Beethoven for a month.
The very first tie I approached him while napping he indeed did growl and attempt to bite me. I even grabbed him wearing leather gloves and loudly saying”no,bad dog” and placing him in his crate. Suggestions please.
Seriously? And you think that is training a dog to do what? Be afraid of when you approach him? Is that what you want? You knew this dog could snap while startled and you approached him while napping? Then you grabbed him for growling at you when you startled him and told him “bad dog”? Really? Aggression is never the fault of the dog. It is the fault of the human who neglected him and caused those fears. A dog is never ever faulted for aggression because he can’t control his fears. A dog is never bad for his fears. That is a whole different thing and not the same as climbing on a counter. Repeat: Aggression and fear is completely different.
Hi Jackie – you’re always welcome to share your thoughts, but I would respectfully ask that you please be kind to other readers if you want to comment here. This blog is open to everyone, and dog owners have widely varying degrees of knowledge and experience with dog training. People should be encouraged to ask for help, not shamed for what they don’t know.
Thanks for understanding. <3
So sorry to hear that you’re having problems with your pup! Aggression in response to being startled is a fairly common issue. It’s possible that your dog may be painful or physically uncomfortable somewhere, or may have had some previous bad experiences with being handled by humans, or touched or picked up when he wasn’t expecting it.
If you can, I would definitely recommend getting in touch with a veterinary behaviorist who can help you sort out what’s causing his aggression and get you started on a detailed treatment plan to address it. Normally, with aggression issues like this, the general approach involves identifying triggers for the aggression so that you can either avoid them, or work with the dog to teach him that he doesn’t need to react this way.
In this dog’s case, for example, you might be able to avoid the problem by simply calling his name to wake him up and make sure he sees you before approaching or touching him. You could also give him a nice, comfy out-of-the-way napping place in a crate or behind an x-pen so that he can nap without anyone accidentally bothering him. Over time, you might also work on teaching him to associate good things (like treats!) with being gently touched, and build up to the point where he’s happy to be touched even while he’s sleeping or resting.
Feel free to send me a private message and let me know where you’re located, if you want to – I’d be happy to try and suggest someone in your area who could help.
I have seen it too common for veterinary behaviorists to go right to prescribing medication for behavior issues, because they have access to them and because it then gets the client and dog hooked on them, for repeat business. I think this group of people are less into training and more into prescribing, and that is a problem.
Dogs don’t get “hooked” on medications. They can very easily be discontinued if needed. But medication can help ease a dog’s anxiety and other problems. It’s better to use them early than to wait until the problem behavior has been rehearsed many times and becomes ingrained.
Hi Dr. Jen,
I was a bit skeptical when I first starting reading this post, but after completing it could not agree with you more. As a trainer, I tell my clients that there are 2 very important components when training your dog, the first is management and the second is behaviors. I do use, reward what you want to continue and ignore what you want to decrease BUT I do back that up with examples of counter surfing and jumping up on people, etc. I remind my clients that their dog is rewarded whenever he counter-surfs and finds something, so it is their job to make sure that s/he does not. I explain that even a pair of sunglasses can be an item that their dog finds rewarding. As for jumping-up, I do instruct them to not give eye contact, do not use their voice and fold there arms in so their dog will not try to mouth them. The “find it’ cue is awesome, but many clients have 2 dogs and this sometimes will start a fight between otherwise nice dog buddies. So when I can, that is what I instruct them to do, but when that is not an option, I ask them to reward as soon as their dog has 4 paws on the floor. In my conversation about management, which I always start off with, we talk about gating and leashing so that visitors can come in and be seated before the dog interacts with them. So thank you for this great post. You got me reading all the way to the end and finding myself agreeing with you wholeheartedly.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts! Your approach sounds very similar to mine, so I think we’re on the same page here 🙂
Jumping up on people is a bit of a sticky example, isn’t it? I agree that there are times when ignoring the dog until he stops can work very well, especially if the person being jumped on is the owner who knows the rules and can (at least theoretically!) be consistent about following them.
For me, the problem comes in when the “jumpee” is a guest, rather than the owner – since visitors are notoriously not great at following instructions about training, lol. I also find that some dogs seem to get so emotionally charged during greetings that they’ll continue happily jumping for quite some time even if the recipient of their attention is doing their best to ignore them.
Agreed that multiple dog households can definitely complicate things, since often the treat scatter isn’t an option in that case. For these dogs, we tend to do a lot of work with the dogs on-leash to prevent problems, and lots of rewards during the initial approach for keeping “four on the floor” before they have a chance to jump.
I’m glad you enjoyed the post, and thanks for raising some good points for discussion!
Love this, thank you! I’ve done the “ignore and hope it gets better” tactic (best example I can think of is when crate training my puppy) years ago and it just about drove us batty. The training program I’m in now is super for making me ask myself “have I taught her the behaviour I want?” and “how do I teach her the behaviour I want?” In the past I was really bad for assuming that she should just “know” what to do. Your post is a great reminder of this!
Yes! Crate training is a great example of this, I think. I do still see people advised to let a new puppy “cry it out” fairly often, and I don’t think this is the best approach in most cases. Too frustrating and upsetting for the pup, and not much fun for the humans in the household either!
I definitely agree that being proactive and rewarding the behavior we want, is what we should be striving for.
Thank you for your posts, which I find informative and helpful, and congratulations on your diplomacy 🙂
You’re very welcome! I’m glad you’re enjoying them. 😉
Corrections slow down learning so we need to “correct” with a request for an opposite behavior. If I don’t want a dog to jump on me, I cue a sit. It’s pretty easy to erase “bad” (read as normal dog behaviors that humans don’t like). The problem I find is that people focus on the “bad” behaviors. Focus on the “good” behaviors and reward when you see them and watch how fast the “bad” behaviors go away.
Jackie – I’m deleting this comment because of this:
“But maybe as a.trainer who charges for their services you would want things to take longer and actually never resolve because you want them coming back for more.”
Please don’t insult other readers on this blog site. Second warning.
I have not seen that corrections slow down learning at all. In fact I think they make things that much clearer to the dog. The dog is given clear instructions exactly what the person is trying to teach by showing desired and undesired behaviors. Things aren’t muddy, left up to the dog wondering what to do.
There is a lot of new research showing that corrections do slow learning. By saying no, or manually correcting behaviors, you are basically saying “Don’t do that!”, which leaves the dog to figure out which of the thousands of other possible things s/he can do instead. To save time, and make sure you are getting the behavior you want, just tell the dog what you want and reward when you get it. Quick, easy, and less confusing for all involved.
Please explain what you mean by manually correcting? Explain what you mean by any corrections. Of course a correction is not a manual hands on correction, if that is what you mean. A correction can simply mean the word “wrong” and the use of the word “yes like a clicker without a clicker. Use what you think is best for the dog at the moment.
For anyone who has trained detailed and intricate behaviors for competition like rally or obedience, remember the use of the word “shaping.” Training is nothing more than shaping the desired behavior whether that is not grabbing food from the table or teaching a pop up stand or a bow for a tricks routine. I recently taught my eight year old terrier mix to do a bow for tricks and rally free. All with shaping and “yes” and “wrong” and treats.” Pretty simplest if you
understand how to shape behavior. This can be applied to teaching anything to any dog.
Again, no, ignoring behaviors is not faster for learning. All it does is confuse the dog because half the picture is missing
Manual correction would be any correction that is not given verbally.
In the past I have used a NRM (no reward marker) to correct an incorrect behavior. After examining the research, I decided to try training without using a NRM to see if there really was a difference, and I was pleasantly surprised to see that dogs were picking up behaviors much quicker the new way.
I agree with fact that bad behavior should not be ignored. I teach my students to correct the bad behavior by redirecting to a desired behavior.
As a professional trainer, I feel it is my obligation to search out new and better ways to work with animals. I have found this new way to be very successful, so I will continue to use it.
Let me ask you a simple question that I ask a lot of pro trainers, so please don’t take this personally. It gives me a lot of information about the trainer.
What kinds of sports or activities do you participate in with your own dogs? Like agility or obedience/rally or Nosework or tracking or anything else that you are able to prove your skills and methods and your dog’s abilities in a public forum up against a set of established rules and regulations?
I get it, those who can do, those who can’t, teach. Good news is some of us can, and do, and also teach!
Yes, I have competed. My least favorite was Rally-O. The people act like their entire worth as a person depends on the ribbon the dog wins. I do what my dogs like to do.
Right now my boy and I are into Barn Hunt, and my girl is doing Freestyle.
I consider myself a knowledgeable and successful trainer based on customer feedback, customer referrals, and how many dogs have remained with their family after training. I have families for whom I’ve trained several dogs over the years. Some travel 10 to 15 miles to train with me, and I’m in a major metropolitan area where trainers are a dime a dozen.
I’m currently working on my CBCC so I can help more dogs with behavior problems stay in their homes.
When it comes to training, if both human and animal are not having fun, you’re doing it wrong!
Actually, Rally is my most favorite sport because, next to agility, it is the most difficult and training and skill intensive activity. Any dog that enters any.level of any Rally venue will have more skills than the majority of dogs in any sport, including Barnhunt and Freestyle. However, I have seen that is why many people don’t participate in Rally is due to the level of training and skills. They like the repetition of a routine and single skill.
Jackie, maybe you should follow a blog that you agree with. I happen to follow Dr. Jen because she is not only a trainer but also a veterinarian and I find her approach to be spot on. I enjoy learning and reading about new approaches. There are many sides to dog training and as a fear free trainer, I happen to believe Dr. Jen’s are valuable resources. Just my take on it.
Yes – I love the idea of “correcting” the dog by requesting a different behavior. That’s a great way of wording this concept. 🙂 It’s very true that if we focus on rewarding the behavior we want, the “bad” stuff often goes away on its own.
That isn’t true. Ignoring a behavior doesn’t extinguish it. It is just delaying solving the problem.
Behavior that gets rewarded gets repeated. It’s really that simple. If you look for the yes, and reward it, you’ll get a lot more yes behaviors. Instead of looking at the issue as “I don’t want my dog to jump on people”, look at it as “I want my dog to sit when greeting guests, or I want my dog to keep four on the floor when greeting people” and train and reward that behavior. Training dogs is easy, training people is extremely difficult.
““I want my dog to sit when greeting guests, or I want my dog to keep four on the floor when greeting people”
This seems to be a key point that both dog trainers and the average pet person misunderstands about dogs. Dogs don’t care what you want as a person. Dogs aren’t there to please people, unlike what people things a dog wants. What dogs care about is pleasing themselves as dogs. If a dog gets more pleasure out of jumping up onto a person with their front feet as high as possible, they will do everything possible to achieve that. Now, through regular training and consistent rewards, they might know what gets them cookies or only a “good boy”, but, when they don’t give a hoot about the cookies and get more internal rewards from jumping up as close to their person’s face as possible, they will try to achieve that.
Now, if you have a 15 pound terrier, who cares if the dog jumps up. If you have a 90 pound German Shepherd, people are gong to care, and the dog knows exactly what it takes to jump up and the few seconds they have to do this before someone grabs a bag of cookies and starts the routine of asking the dog to sit, sit, sit, sit, sit over and over and over until the dog finally does it on the 15 attempt and then gets a mouthful of cookies, what do you think the dog has just learned? Has he learned that sitting on the first time gets him anything, but “good boy” or did he learn that not doing what is asked gets him a mouthful of treats and the pure joy of jumping on people who are visiting?
Or will he learn faster if he gets a firm “Wrong” in a strong voice and “Buddy, sit!” the first and only time, or he goes back to his crate for another attempt in a couple of hours. Time outs work great for dogs. Now that will teach them quickly. Do you want to come out and join the party, and get treats for following directions, or do you want to go back to your crate with nothing?
Setting a dog up for success comes after them already being taught the desirable and undesirBle behaviors. Making them responsible for choosing the right option but making it easier to make the right choice. Like if you have a dog with housetraining issues, don’t leave them loose in the house to constantly make a mistake. Gradually give them a little more freedom after they learn the desirable and undesirable behaviors. If they prove to make the right decision by not peeing in the house, then slowly set them up for success by being loose and not peeing in the house.
Hey Dr. Jen –
A great blog as usual! Setting a dog up for success allows the owner to then work on the behavior they need to modify in their dog. I think the only behavior that should be ignored is the behavior that doesn’t annoy the owner. :0) My old dog barks when I’m prepping his dinner, it doesn’t annoy me but annoys my husband. Guess who serves dinner in my house?? LOL…
Thanks again!
I’m glad you enjoyed it! You bring up a great point, here – behavior problems are very much in the eye of the beholder. 🙂 If it doesn’t bother you, and isn’t unsafe or unhealthy for the dog, then no need to do anything differently at all.
My boys always bark happily while I get their dinner ready. In another home, with another owner, this might be a problem in need of fixing. For us, it’s just a normal part of life that doesn’t bother me at all. With Shelties, you have to pick your battles over barking… lol.
That would drive me nite. I would never allow that.
You have some good points but your arrogant, abrasive delivery of them “muddies” your communication. It seems maybe you should give yourself a firm “wrong” to help clarify this for yourself.
I would give myself a Yes!!!!!
Hi Dr. Jen –
This was a really helpful post for me. I’m a regular pet owner, not a trainer, and your explanation about management to stop the behavior (in the moment) and training for desired behavior (for the long term) was clear. Thank you!
You’re very welcome! I’m glad you enjoyed it, and found the explanation clear and helpful. 🙂
What a clear and helpful post! I love how you clearly distinguish between management techniques and the need for planned training. Your comment about the sunglasses made me smile. When I got a dog who was going to get big enough to countersurf, I thought I was ready. I heavily reinforced mat training in an out-of-the-way area of the kitchen. But I was also very proactive about having my counters clear of all food, crumbs, or even hints of food that she could ever dream of reaching. I was going to prevent that problem before it ever started.
Then I discovered that to her, pencils, note pads, rubber bands, paper towels, clean silverware, you name it…were all very attractive and surfable!
That problem faded as I tightened the management and she grew out of the “grab everything” phase. But it taught me a lesson. As you say, food isn’t the only reinforcer a dog might pluck off a counter!
Great post!
Thanks, Eileen! Glad you enjoyed it. 🙂 It’s so true that for many dogs, “non-traditional” reinforcers like paper towels, rubber bands, etc. can be just as much fun as a leftover sandwich. A great reminder that the learner defines what is reinforcing, not the trainer!
You bring up the good point that reinforcement doesn’t always come from us, and so doing something to interrupt the behavior to redirect, is not necessarily reinforcing the inappropriate behavior, as some assume we must be doing. Anyone can come up with ways to change a dog’s behavior. This blog does a good job of explaining to owners an efficient way to change the annoying ones.
Absolutely – there are many possible ways of interrupting an unwanted behavior, so the ones I listed here as examples are definitely not the only ones. Glad you enjoyed the post!
Hi everyone.
For context: I am a dog trainer that supports weaning your dog off treat training so they don’t become dependant on treats to follow direction.
However…
No one is going to completely agree with training methods – it’s like how no one is going to agree on the correct way to raise kids. However, it is important for your dog to be trained. Find a method that works for both you AND the dog, and stick with it. If you’re dog is not responding or getting worse with the training method you are doing now, find a new method. Behavior problems are the number one reason people get rid of their dogs. So, find a method that works, and stick to it. Not eveyone will agree with the method no matter which one you pick, but that’s just life.
Long story-short: if this post helps with your furry friend, great! If not, find one that does.
Keep your furry-friend in your loving home.
https://athingforbaddogs.com/
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